Space & Astronomy/Space and Astronomy (October 1993).iso/mac/TEXT/SPACEDIG/V13_7/V13_714.TXT

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Subject: SPACE Digest V13 #714

SPACE Digest                                     Volume 13 : Issue 714

Today's Topics:
            Re: Beanstalk analysis reprise
        looking for terrestrial orbit software
         Re: Astro-Nugget worth $$$ trillions
            Re: Death of the Space Station
              Re: Fred's Operatic Death
            Re: Sun Spot naked eye
            Re:SS fred(an option)
               Re: NASA Budget
                 What's HUD?
               Re: NASA Budget
          Re: space news from April 15 AW&ST
            Re: orbiter production
            Re: RFD:  talk.politics.space
          Re: Jonathan's Space Report, Jun 5
            SPACE Digest V13 #610

Administrivia:

    Submissions to the SPACE Digest/sci.space should be mailed to
  [e-mail].  Other mail, esp. [un]subscription requests,
  should be sent to [e-mail], or, if urgent, to
             [e-mail]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 7 Jun 91 15:51:23 GMT
From: cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!ptimtc!nntp-server.caltech.edu!iago.caltech.edu![e-mail]  (Lydick, Carl)
Subject: Re: Beanstalk analysis reprise

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Bob Campbell) writes...
>There are many factors that would tend to increase fatigue in the
>stalk.  Materials science has its work cut out for it.  The stalk
>has to perform well over a wide range of conditions at the same time.
>The stalk could not be made of any of the materials you cited.

And it has to work right the FIRST time.  Having the sucker break in the
vicinity of geosync altitude could really ruin your day if you were anywhere on
the equator.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick    HEPnet/NSI: SOL1::CARL    Internet: [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 7 Jun 91 20:12:18 GMT
From: world![e-mail]  (Robert D Webber)
Subject: looking for terrestrial orbit software

I am looking for software packages to compute future positions of
earth-orbiting artificial satellites given present position, velocity,
and time.  At the moment my search is at a very early stage, so I would
appreciate _any_ leads to public domain (with source) or commercial software.
The ideal software will run on a UNIX system (Sun 4), but at this
point I'd be interested to hear of anything to handle this task.

Thanks for any help: please post responses to this group or send
e-mail.

------------------------------

Date: 7 Jun 91 21:45:21 GMT
From: mojo![e-mail]  (Doug Mohney)
Subject: Re: Astro-Nugget worth $$$ trillions

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (mike santangelo (UNIX/VMS Sys Staff)) writes:

>From the Washington Post, June 7, 1991 (y114#184), p. A11:
>
>                 Nearby Asteroid Worth a Trillion
>
>     "  An astronimical El Dorado containing some 10,000 tons of
>      gold and 100,000 tons of platinum has been found orbiting
>      the sun tantalizingly close to Earth, according to a report
>      in today's issue of Science.

>      The itinerant astro-nugget also contains approximately 10 billion
>      tons of iron and a billion tons of nickel.
>        At today's prices, the commodity value of 1986 DA is approximately
>      astronomical: The gold alone is worth about $120 billion and the
>      platinum nearly a trillion dollars.
>        Immediate prospects for mining, however, are dim: The nearest
>      the asteroid gets to Tiffany's is about 20 million miles.

Now all Nick needs to do is get Pournelle and $2 billion dollars and he's got
it made ;-)



     Signature envy: quality of some people to put 24+ lines in their .sigs
  -- >                  [e-mail]                        < --

------------------------------

Date: 8 Jun 91 02:04:38 GMT
From: vax5.cit.cornell.edu![e-mail]
Subject: Re: Death of the Space Station


 Michael Wallis writes in Re: Death of the Space Station: 6 June

 OBST: It's really time for some kind of International Space Agency
       deicated to the exploration.

Naw.........just Yet Another Layer of bureaucrats.



Mr. Wallis? Why didn't you finish you statement??  As much as people
complained about my postings in referance to the United Space Federation
I still received over 150 replies of which 73 people wrote in support of,
47 wrote against, and 30 wrote flames or nonsence.  I think this clearly
goes to show that an International Civil Space Agency is an idea whos
time has clearly come.  For any one outthere who has read these postings
and thought they were a joke or prank!, there weren't.  As far as the
spelling and other grammer problems go. I have a writing disibilty and
as hard as I try things dont always come out through my hands as I
intend them to! I was costently bashed by people who only seemed to
want to pick apart the spelling and grammer and totaly ignored the
content of the material completly! :-(  There were a few though that
read the content of my posts and when they found out of my disibility
offered thier assistance as they believed in what I was presenting was
something that needed to happen now. :-) I thank them( and they know
how they are! ).  As far as all the postings are consered in the Soc.
Culture news groups goes, they were posted there as I figured sence
this was intended as an international project that would have been a
good place to go to get support and interest! As I am new to this
net mediume I did not know how to cross post, I apologize if this caused
anyone a major inconveince. :-(  Several people attemped to twist my
posts and make them look sinister and unimportant.  When I cross posted
to soc. cultural. jewish all seven again responded with very bitter
and vemenous responces! They know who they are and so do I now, as I
do not want to be accused of being antijewish ( which I am not! ) I
only have this to say. If you are going to gain up on some one its not
good to be so obveous about it, as it blows the whole card game!
As every letter both sent and recieved by me at this account are copied
onto paper and filed in our corporations files this is well recorded!

                                    Thanks for your time and support!
                                           Sincerely,
                                           Rick R. Dobson
                                           Executive Director
                                           and Founder
                                           United Space Federation, Inc.

                                           O   0
                                             ^
                                           :...:   The Space Man!

An International Civil Space Agency By 1993, An Idea Wose Time Has Come!

The comments in the post are the not related to Cornel and belong to the
USF.

------------------------------

Date: 8 Jun 91 03:45:24 GMT
From: cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!utzoo![e-mail]  (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Fred's Operatic Death

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Meanwhile, Freddy Kreuger is back, and ready to start slashing away
>at space science, NFS, development of commercial space projects...

No, he never left.  He's been sitting quietly on the sidelines in his
secret identity:  EOS.
--
"We're thinking about upgrading from    | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
SunOS 4.1.1 to SunOS 3.5."              |  [e-mail]  utzoo!henry

------------------------------

Date: 7 Jun 91 10:23:27 GMT
From: cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!aplcen!aplpy.jhuapl.edu![e-mail]  (Russell S. Laderer)
Subject: Re: Sun Spot naked eye

Speaking of naked-eye sun spot viewing,

On the Sunday of Memorial Day weekend, I was headed east through
the mountains of eastern WVa/western MD.  It was early in the morning
and the fog was substantial in many places.  I looked up through the
tinted glass t-top of my friends Camaro (and my sunglasses), and to
my surprise, I saw a black dot in the upper left quadrant of the
sun (which was a very pale yellow through so much filtering).  I
didn't look at it for long, but took short (10-15 sec) peeks at it
whenever the fog was dense enough.

Scott Laderer

------------------------------

Date: 7 Jun 91 00:24:16 GMT
From: comp.vuw.ac.nz!med.wcc.govt.nz![e-mail]
Subject: Re:SS fred(an option)

After reading through endless postings on fred,enough to make me wish thay'll
kill the thing on princilel,i'm left with a few questions.Now to an american
these may be obvious but not to this antipanian.
A/ What is the perpous of zero g biomed,science or a farm full of pork?
B/ If the latter prosed as befor.If it is science please to remember there is a
fully functional station up now,the owners are a mite straped for cash and
would very likly be most amenable to a resonable joint ventur offer.Hook a
sutable module or two up and your away laughing.
As for crew transport get bids,so what if the sovets bid less than what NASA
says is cost if thay want to subsadise a NASA project thats there problem.
Hark do I hear shrill hysterical shreeks of tec.transfer?.Get a life bro unless
the KGB and GRU have closed down latly thay have any tec. in the public domain
thay want.There trouble isn't getting it it's producing the stuff.

Nick
W.C.C  NZ

Tell the truth?
hell we're public servents there not going to beleave us anyhow.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Jun 91 21:46:32 -0400
From: "Allen W. Sherzer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: NASA Budget
Cc:

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

>The AGU was one of the main forces behind the 1957 IGY, which
>led to Sputnik and Explorer and started the whole civilian space
>program off in the first place.

Nick, the ICBM and the cold war had far more to do with it than
the AGU. I can see why you don't understand the role of the Kelly
act since that was a long time ago but this is something you
should know better about.

  Allen
--
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Allen W. Sherzer |   DETROIT: Where the weak are killed and eaten.         |
|   [e-mail]   |                                                         |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu,  6 JUN 91 14:45:32 GMT
From: F026 <@BITNET.CC.CMU.EDU:[e-mail]>
Subject: What's HUD?

Not being a US citizen, I have no idea what HUD stands for. Could someone
please enlighten me?
Cheers,
Mike.

------------------------------

Date: 7 Jun 91 14:17:05 GMT
From: super![e-mail]  (Ronald G Minnich)
Subject: Re: NASA Budget

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Joe Cain) writes:
>The American Geophysical Union recognizes that passage of this
>amendment would do serious damage to future space science programs and
>urge all to phone their congressional representatives and urge that
>this amendment be defeated. Instead, they support the originally
>passed budget of the Appropriations Committee.

Once again, you are playing their game. If they set us to fighting each
other, we now have a zero-sum game in which space funding gets hurt no
matter what. Get the money from non-space programs. If you can never win
the argument FOR space science at SOME MINISCULE COST to those other
social programs
(which are a black hole if ever there was one), then you can never win.
It is a real shame to see this sort of infighting in a crowd that should have
common interests.
ron
--
Quote of the month:"The 300 answering machines at (name suppressed) that
pass for tech and sales support have been amazingly _unhelpful_."
--Terrence Talbot

------------------------------

Date: 7 Jun 91 20:42:05 GMT
From: cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!utzoo![e-mail]  (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: space news from April 15 AW&ST

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Alan M. Carroll) writes:
>I _must_ be missing something here. The NRC is attempting to prevent
>the USSR from retrieving a reactor _owned by the USSR_ because US laws
>prohibit sending them one?

You aren't missing anything.  It really is true.

>Also, hasn't some US agency already bought a Topaz 2?

Not yet.  SDIO is planning to buy one.
--
"We're thinking about upgrading from    | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
SunOS 4.1.1 to SunOS 3.5."              |  [e-mail]  utzoo!henry

------------------------------

Date: 7 Jun 91 22:04:14 GMT
From: [e-mail]  (Byron Han)
Subject: Re: orbiter production

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (John McKernan) writes:
>[e-mail] (Doug McDonald) writes:
>
>I really don't think the shuttle provides enough unique capability to
>justify it's cost. The largest payload shroud on the Titan IV can
>launch payloads of almost the same weight and dimensions as the shuttle.
>We will lose the ability to launch people into orbit, but at $10000 per
>pound I really think manned space R&D funds would be much better spent
>developing cheaper launch technology, regenerative life support, advanced
>space propulsion, REAL (tm) space suits, etc.
>
If we are not going to do manned space flight, why are you proposing
spending money on regenerative life support, space suits, etc?

Shuttle being able to launch people into orbit is certainly a very unique
capability when compared to Titan IV.
--

Byron Han, CommToolbox Emir       Our CEO makes more than yours...
Apple Computer, Inc.              --------------------------------------------
20525 Mariani Ave, MS: 35CP       Internet: [e-mail]
Cupertino, CA 95014               AppleLink: HAN1  [e-mail]
Phone: [phone]             CompuServe: 72167,1664

------------------------------

Date: 7 Jun 91 12:56:10 GMT
From: cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!umich!ox.com!hela![e-mail]  (Allen W. Sherzer)
Subject: Re: RFD:  talk.politics.space

I think a group for non-science space related postings is a good idea and
I wold support it. However, I think people will find a lot of overlap between
them. Sci.environment and talk.environment went through this a while back
and last time I looked there was a lot of crossposting.

There is also the matter of space-digest. Will they want to see the political
postings? If so, will they be made available? If not, you may find a lot
of political postings from digest readers.

  Allen

--
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Allen W. Sherzer |   DETROIT: Where the weak are killed and eaten.         |
|   [e-mail]   |                                                         |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: 7 Jun 91 18:20:41 GMT
From: cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!utzoo![e-mail]  (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Jonathan's Space Report, Jun 5

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Andy Clews) writes:
>+ Delta 111, the second stage of the launch vehicle which orbited Nimbus 6
>+ in 1975, exploded into hundreds of fragments about May 14. The Delta
>+ stages of that era had a habit of exploding years after launch...
>
>Presumably this increases manyfold the amounts of orbiting debris to
>splatter the Shuttle's windscreen and other vehicles?

Well, this particular explosion doesn't multiply it by all that much, but
the old Delta second stages in general are definitely a major source of
debris.
--
"We're thinking about upgrading from    | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
SunOS 4.1.1 to SunOS 3.5."              |  [e-mail]  utzoo!henry

------------------------------

ReSent-Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Resent-Date:  Fri, 07 Jun 91 18:46:10 EDT
Resent-From: Tom McWilliams <[e-mail]>
Resent-To: [e-mail]
Date:         Fri, 7 Jun 91 01:41:21 EDT
Reply-To: [e-mail]
From: [e-mail]
Subject:      SPACE Digest V13 #610
Comments: To: [e-mail]
To: david polito <[e-mail]>, Tom McWilliams <[e-mail]>

Re: Shuttle / Saturn Costs

>> With the astronomical pricetag for the shuttle, he doesn't believe
>> cheap spaceflight is possible.

>For the first shot a reuseable vehicle, the shuttle does quite well.  Its
>launch cost is less than the Saturn V.
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I'm assuming you mean 'per launch'?  Do you have figures?  If so, what are
they, and where did you get them?  Do they include the cost of the CSM, LM,
science packages, etc, or just the vehicle, fuel crew and maint. costs?

>--
>
>Mike Kent -     Lockheed Engineering and Sciences Company at NASA JSC
>                2400 NASA Rd One, Houston, TX 77058 [phone]
>                [e-mail]

Tom
Acknowledge-To: <18084TM@MSU>

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V13 #714
*******************